For today's Oscar volley, Eurocheese and Nathaniel discuss Best Original Score.
Editor's Note: This conversation began before the finalist list for Original Score was announced on December 21st but we thought we'd share as is, given what was said!
EUROCHEESE: Nathaniel, I'm excited to discuss this with you! I left theaters several times this year thinking, I need to look that music up when I get home. It's always fun to connect which previous films come from the same composers as well. I expect we'll see both familiar and new faces in the line up this year.
Oppenheimer's epic soundscape comes from Ludwig Göransson, recent Oscar winner for his work on Black Panther (and a nominee for its sequel), He will no doubt score his third nomination for the orchestral nuance he brings, especially standing out in the film's quieter scenes. If I had my say, though, this award would go to Robbie Robertson's ode to the Osage Nation in Killers of the Flower Moon. If I could only award the film a single Oscar, it would be in this category. Robertson has never been nominated, despite his long standing collaboration with Scorsese (including films like Gangs of New York, Shutter Island and Silence). Since he passed away earlier this year, this will be the Academy's last chance to honor him...
Completing our frontrunner trio, I must say I've never heard a score quite like the one in Poor Things, and "memorable" can translate to awards love. It was honestly a bit much for me, but newcomer (meaning yes, this is his first film) Jerskin Fendrix is clearly talented. All of these films are front and center in the Best Picture race, and I expect all three will be showing up here. Would you agree?
NATHANIEL: I think Oppenheimer is one of only two 'locks' for a score nomination (given Oscar history with Scorsese titles and, unrelated, the wildly unpredictable response from year to year in regards to "new" to Oscar composers). But here I must confess that Original Score is one of the three or four categories that have most stymied me in my pundit years. I used to often predict newcomers to be nominated due to brilliant scores only to be reminded that it's a clique-y branch that rewards their own perpetually.. and I got so in the habit of assuming they wouldn't nominate newcomers (after years of them refusing to) that when they did start regularly nominating newbies I kept mispredicting because I had finally admitted my blindspot about their previous "only our favourites are allowed!" mode. To make a long paragraph shorter let's just say I am rarely on the music branch's wavelength -- or is it timeline? You get what I mean.
When I notice a score while a movie is playing it's often because it's taking me out of the movie... not because I like it per se! Either that or the sound mix has preferenced it a lot, forcing me to focus on it. But listening to scores after the fact can be eye opening as to the artistry involved. Which is a long way of saying it takes me a very long time to decide which scores I truly love in a given year. But I'm thinking I *might* like the scores to... All of Us Strangers, Asteroid City (not eligible - more on that in a minute), Elemental, Ferrari, Godzilla Minus One, Killers of the Flower Moon, Oppenheimer, Past Lives, Poor Things, and The Zone of Interest. But I also want to give a quick second listen to Are You There God? It's Me Margaret, The Holdovers, Nyad, and Spider-Verse. And there's a couple movies I still haven't seen that might be of interest in this category like Carmen and The Creator.
One of the things that's interesting to me about the eligibility list for the Oscars in this category is which films don't show up because they are "diluted by the use of pre-existing music" and/or "diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs". It is always egregiously arbitrary. Here's an example: The Little Mermaid and Wonka and Asteroid City were already booted for these reasons and yet The Color Purple (based on the Broadway musical), the Little Richard: I Am Everything doc (chock full of classic rock n roll hits from start to finish), and Barbie -- which is practically a musical itself! -- are on the long list of eligible titles. How so if those others aren't? Other scores which seemed very song 'diluted' to me this year -- no knock against the scores themselves just the fact that they had to share a lot of space with songs -- were The Holdovers and The Killer which are both eligible.
Anyway, I would place John Williams (who is ALWAYS nominated if eligible) in position #2 behind Goransson in terms of how assured the nomination is this year. A lock if he makes the finals (i.e. if there's enough original music in the film). I don't for even a split second think Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny will be in contention for the win but Williams is basically on the Oscar ballot the moment he signs any movie contract.
EUROCHEESE: You make a very good point on favoritism, and I may be talking myself into a mistake here, but isn't it possible the Academy won't want to reward the flop of the Indiana Jones franchise? The Book Thief feels like the classic example of Williams getting in regardless of the film, but outside of that, we're mostly talking blockbusters that performed relatively well or Spielberg pictures. He seems specifically drawn to those projects, though, so maybe I'm overthinking it. Betting against him may be like betting against Diane Warren in Song, but I'm still tempted to do it.
NATHANIEL: I once did research on this and have since lost it so this is possibly apocryphal / exaggerated but I think Williams has only missed a score nomination he was eligible for once or twice in his entire career (not counting the years where he had multiple scores and got in for only one of them). In short: they're addicted to his work / his legend.
EUROCHEESE: Other familiar faces returning to the category this year that might garner support: Alexandre Desplat (Nyad) and Thomas Newman (Elemental) are perennial nominees at this point. I wouldn't call him an Oscar favorite yet, but Daniel Pemberton scored a nomination for Song in 2020, and he's back with two buzzy scores this year: Spider-Verse (which Sony has been pushing hard for a nomination) and Ferrari. I also wouldn't count out Michael Giacchino, previous winner/nominee for Up and Ratatouille, who is in the mix for Society of the Snow. That score is one of my favorites this year.
I just recently watched The Zone of Interest and while the soundscape was devastating, I would lean towards a Sound nomination before one for Score. I know others disagree, though, noting the music at the beginning and end of the film. I'd prefer a nomination for Past Lives, which seems to have vocal support behind it. I know it's a long shot, but I also loved the Saltburn score, though it has the Holdovers/Killer problem of sharing space with songs.
Maybe the strongest contender based on current awards is Joe Hisaishi (The Boy and the Heron), Miyazaki's longtime collaborator who has never received love from the music branch. Do you think their aversion to outsiders will hurt him, or do you think his impressive work over the years will help push him to a nomination?
NATHANIEL: I think campaigns have to be really strong for 'body of work' style nominations in the Craft categories. Yes the voters in those branches work (or have worked) in those fields but they don't always know everyone else's work... that's surely even more true now that Oscar is leaning more international and the voters thus surely have an even broader spectrum of possible cultural reference points or blindspots. From my experience meeting and talking with Oscar voters it's as all over the place as it is with civilians in regards to whether or not they know of / care about something. Cultural knowledge beyond mainstream talking points is totally dependent on the person in question (their interests, habits, curiousity, social circles, movie love or lack thereof) whether they work in Hollywood or only consume Hollywood through movies and tv. But that nomination is definitely a possibility I need to think more on. They do like animated films in this category.
Like you I also think the sound in The Zone of Interest is worthy BUT I'm not entirely convinced that Oscar will go for it. When it comes to sound they statistically prefer big and bombastic 'loud' films rather to more conceptual "sound design". But that's another topic.
INTERRUPTING OUR CONVERSATION THE FINAL 15 WERE ANNOUNCED. THESE TITLES WILL BE VYING FOR 5 SLOTS
- Jon Batiste, AMERICAN SYMPHONY
- Kris Bowers, THE COLOR PURPLE
- Jerskin Fendrix, POOR THINGS
- Michael Giacchino, SOCIETY OF THE SNOW
- Ludwig Göransson, OPPENHEIMER
- Joe Hisaishi, THE BOY AND THE HERON
- Laura Karpman, AMERICAN FICTION
- Mica Levi, THE ZONE OF INTEREST
- Thomas Newman, ELEMENTAL
- Mark Orton, THE HOLDOVERS
- Daniel Pemberton, SPIDER-MAN: ACROSS THE SPIDER-VERSE
- Robbie Robertson, KILLERS OF THE FLOWER MOON
- Mark Ronson & Andrew Wyatt, BARBIE
- John Williams, INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY
- Anthony Willis, SALTBURN
EURO: Well, as of this writing, the shortlist has knocked out Past Lives and Nyad. I must admit I was predicting Past Lives.
It's so hard to know their taste. I was shocked when Women Talking missed the cut last year, even when it managed to make Best Picture. This was the only category where Da 5 Bloods managed to land a nomination though, but 2020 will always be a bit of an oddball year. When they do step out of the typical awards bait or blockbuster films, it's most often for a branch favorite.
I must admit, I hadn't given consideration to American Symphony. Score has never been a category where documentaries are expected to appear, but considering the focus is a musician, it would certainly make sense. Will the film receive so much love that it will show up here, though? As a frontrunner for Documentary, it feels a little excessive.
I'm landing on these five, foolishly betting against inside baseball:
- Ludwig Göransson, Oppenheimer
- Robbie Robertson, Killers of the Flower Moon
- Jerskin Fendrix, Poor Things
- Joe Hisaishi, The Boy and the Heron
- John Williams, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny
NATHANIEL: I've convinced you on Williams it seems. The announcement of the 15 finalists led me to reevalulate but the top two (in terms of likelihood of a nomination) remain the only locks:
Poor Things, The Holdovers, Boy and the Heron (now that it made the finals) and Society of the Snow all feel like very real threatt to Zone, Killers of, and Elemental so we'll see. Which music scores will the orchestra have to cue up on the regular on Oscar night?
Your turn in the comments.
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The score to Poor Things absolutely blew me away, which is usually a sign that the score doesn't get nominated. It's weirder than the film and I love it.
The Boy and the Heron could be a real threat here. Lovely composition work.
Saltburn could sneak in if it's stronger than we think it is. The Amazon release has brought back a lot of word of mouth discussion and (even if the existing songs aren't eligible) the music gets mentioned a lot.
I'd bet on Oppenheimer, Killers, and Indiana Jones for nominations - but beyond that, no idea. Just off personal taste I'd fill those slots with Willis/Saltburn and Giacchino/Society of the Snow.
Whoever wins this could dictate who wins Best Pic and I hope it's Robbie Robertson,I liked May Decembers score this year.
Thomas Newman Thomas Newman Thomas Newman. A score that is actually lovely to listen to and works beautifully in the movie, unlike that blaring unceasing cacophony created for OPPENHEIMER that never allows for a single moment of silence.
Right now, the score for Poor Things is my favorite as I love how unconventional it is as I also love the score for Oppenheimer. I would like to add a honorable mention towards NIN for their score for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem as it was a banger of a score.
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